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Kings and Generals Podcast

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Kings and Generals Podcast

    Fall and Rise of China: Rise of Nurhaci

    Fall and Rise of China: Rise of Nurhaci

    Long Intro
     
    China is one of the world’s four ancient civilizations, alongside Mesopotamia, the Indus valley and Egypt. It has a written history dating as far back as the Shang Dynasty, that's around 1600 BC, over 3000 years ago! Now as you can also imagine  you are not getting the full rundown of the entire history of China, it’s simply too immense for the overall story we are getting into. The story I want to tell has been termed by scholars, “the century of humiliation” dating 1839 until 1949. During this period China or better called the Qing Dynasty and later Republic of China faced terrible and humiliating subjugation by Western powers and the Empire of Japan.The story we are going to begin today is one of pain and hardship, but it is also a tale of endurance and resilience that created the China we see today. 
     
    This is the Fall and Rise of China Podcast



    I am going to let you in on a little secret, I myself am quite new to the vast history of China. As some of you listeners might already know, I am the writer and narrator of the Pacific War Podcast week by week. I specialize in the Pacific War and Japanese history and I ventured into a journey to explain everything that is the Pacific War of 1937-1945 when I began my personal Channel called the Pacific War Channel on Youtube. Yet when I sat down to begin writing about the history of Tokugawa Japan and how Japan would find itself on a path towards virtual oblivion, I thought to myself, well what about China? This is when I fell down a rabbit hole that is 19th century China. I immediately fell in love with it. I am a westerner, a Canadian, this was knowledge not usually told on my side of the world. So I thought, what are the most important events that made the China we see emerging during the Pacific War, or to be more accurate the Second Sino-Japanese War? I fell upon the first opium war, by the time I read a few books on that, it was the second opium war, then the Taiping Rebellion, the Nian Rebellion, the Boxer rebellion, the list goes on and on. 19th Century China is one of the most fascinating albeit traumatic episodes of human history and has everything to do with the formation of the China we see today. The term a century of humiliation or 100 years of humiliation is how many Chinese historians describe the time period between the First Opium War and the end of the Chinese Civil War. I do not speak the language nor have a full understanding of the culture, I am a lifelong learner and continue to educate myself on the history of one of the most ancient peoples of our world. This will be a long and honestly difficult story to tell, but I welcome you to join me on this journey.
     
    Stating all that I want to begin our journey explaining how the Ming Dynasty fell and the Qing Dynasty rose up. 
    This episode is the rise of Nurhaci
    Welcome to the Fall and Rise of China Podcast, I am your dutiful host Craig Watson. But, before we start I want to also remind you this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Perhaps you want to learn more about the history of Asia? Kings and Generals have an assortment of episodes on world war two and much more  so go give them a look over on Youtube. So please subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry for some more history related content, over on my channel, the Pacific War Channel where I cover the history of China and Japan from the 19th century until the end of the Pacific War.
     
    The Ming-Qing transition is a story filled with drama and corruption, heroes and villains, traitors and martyrs. Peasant rebellions, corrupt politicians and terrifying invaders would eventually collapse what was the Ming dynasty.
     
    The Ming Dynasty was the ruling dynasty of China between 1368 and 1644. It would be the last dynasty to be ruled by Han C

    • 1 hr
    Fall and Rise of China: Ming Strike Back

    Fall and Rise of China: Ming Strike Back

    Last time we spoke, the Yuan Dynasty lost their hold over China as a result of famines and a rebellion led by Zhu Yuanzhang that eventually toppled them. Now the Ming Dynasty stood as a marvel to the world achieving great wonders, but how long would it prosper? The Ming Dynasty’s first Emperors began their reign hampered by paranoia, leading to bloodshed. Eventually it seemed all was going well for the new Dynasty, but then an external threat came to the door in the form of Japan. The Imjin War of 1592-1598 saw the Ming Dynasty quelling the Japanese challenge at their status as the supreme military power in East Asia, but it also weakened them, opened the door for the Jurchen Chieftain Nurhaci to establish a new state and wage war upon them. Now Nurhaci had won a great victory over 4 Ming armies, what would he do next and how would the Ming stop him?
    Welcome to the Fall and Rise of China Podcast, I am your dutiful host Craig Watson. But, before we start I want to also remind you this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Perhaps you want to learn more about the history of Asia? Kings and Generals have an assortment of episodes on world war two and much more  so go give them a look over on Youtube. So please subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry for some more history related content, over on my channel, the Pacific War Channel where I cover the history of China and Japan from the 19th century until the end of the Pacific War.
     
    This episode is the Ming strike back 
    After Nurhaci had shocked the Ming Court by defeating the 4 armies they sent to destroy him, they now realized they required bigger actions. The Ming Court appointed Xiong Tingbi as “Jinglue” the Military Affairs Commissioner of Liaodong. Xiong was a veteran, a very skilled commander, an intelligent negotiator and interestingly an ambidextrous archer. He was one of the very few Ming officials who had both civil and military skills. Xiong began his work by taking an account of his forces and the enemy. There was supposed to be roughly 180,000 Ming soldiers in the region, but Xiong’s personal inspectors found only 90,000 and of which many were unfit for war. Xiong estimated Nurhaci to have around 100,000 men, so this prompted him to request 1.2 million taels of silver from the Ministry Revenue to pump up the Liaodong defense. This soon escalated into a back and forth situation, prompting Xiong to argue that the bureaucrats were not investing enough funds to actually put up a real defense of Liaodong. In the end the Ministers of War and Revenue coughed up around half what he asked for. This would be a recurring theme until the end of the Ming dynasty. 
     
    Xiong’s strategy was to establish extremely stout defenses instead of sending large forces out in the field to face the Jin. He also sought to “sooth the hearts and minds of the people”, emphasizing a psychological aspect of the war. What was meant by this was that Xiong was displaying to the Emperor that they needed the people of Liao to know they were valued subjects, because too many were becoming unhappy and as a result defected to the Jin. Xiong also realized having failed to secure enough funds he needed to find his own and thus they would “use the people of Liao to defend Liao and by using the resources of Liao to support Liao”.
     
    Xiong realized the only real avantage the Ming held over the Jin, was that of firepower.
    Thus Xiong wanted to formulate his defensive plans based around taking advantage of that. He quickly began using the funds to build up the moats and walls for the fortresses, build cannons and firearms and paid for the relocation of over 180,000 additional troops from other regions to defend a southern line between Fushun and Fort Zhenjiang. He also built up a system of beacons and w

    • 58 min
    Fall and Rise of China: The Wrath of Hung

    Fall and Rise of China: The Wrath of Hung

    Last time we spoke, Xiong Tingbi had created a grand defensive strategy that paved the way for the defeat of the Jin invaders. However he was soon impeached and executed, a victim to his rivals in the Ming Court. Despite this his defensive strategy would live on with the appointment of Sun Chengzong. We also talked about the rise of the Sea King Mao Wenlong and how his crazy antics impressed the Ming Court. Yet something was not right about Mao Wenlong’s victories, they simply did not add up. Then at the last hour when all hope seemed to be lost for the lonesome commander, Yuan Chonghuan at the fortress of Ningyuan a miracle happened. The cannon expert managed to not only defeat the Jin invaders at Ningyuan, he also managed to kill the great Khan Nurhaci. With the death of Nurhaci, what will the Jin empire do next?
    Welcome to the Fall and Rise of China Podcast, I am your dutiful host Craig Watson. But, before we start I want to also remind you this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Perhaps you want to learn more about the history of Asia? Kings and Generals have an assortment of episodes on world war two and much more  so go give them a look over on Youtube. So please subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry for some more history related content, over on my channel, the Pacific War Channel where I cover the history of China and Japan from the 19th century until the end of the Pacific War.
    This episode is Wrath of Hung 
     
    In the wake of Nurhaci’s death, his son Hung Taiji became the new Khan of the Jin Empire. Hung faced many rivals amongst his own relatives when he took power. Interestingly enough Hung began his Khanhood by flirting with some peace talks with the Ming. Hung laid out 2 conditions for peace, the first that the Ming should send tribute to the Jin, the second that a border be fixed at Shanhaiguan. In return the Jin would also send the Ming tributary gifts, thus the Jin would be below the Ming Emperor, but above the Ming officials, honestly a fair arrangement. Emperor Tianqi warned his officials not to enter peace talks lightly, but did seem to heed to offers. Now historians think Hung was perhaps doing all of this merely to raise his own authority in the grander scheme of things. To talk the way he was to the Ming Dynasty really elevated the status of the Jin. Another major reason historians argue as to why Hung began these peace talks was to buy time for a new operation. Somewhat as a result of the Sea King Mao’s ventures, raiding on the Bohai coast drew attention to the unfortunate land due south east of it, Korea. Hung chose to invade Korea to secure his flank for anticipated attacks on the western Ming front. The Ming held an overwhelming advantage in resources and some of those resources such as food came from Korea. By defeating Korea, Hung could extract tribute, such as much needed food supplies from the koreas and stop it from getting into the Ming’s hands. The Korean’s for their part were aiding and abetting the sea king Mao by shielding many of his raiders within Korea. Though they did this begrudgingly might I add as they did not trust Mao.
     
    The Jin sent 30,000 troops over the Korean border in 1627 easily overrunning the border towns. When they advanced on Uiji, Mao fled into the Bohai gulf with some of his forces. Soon the Jin captured Anju, Pyongyang and were quickly crossing the Taedong River. The battle for Anju was very intense and when the defenders knew they were going to be beaten they allegedly blew themselves up with gunpowder. As soon as the word got out of the invasion, the Ming dispatched a relief force to help the Koreans. Meanwhile the royal family of Korea fled to Kanghwa island and tried desperately to bribe the Jin to stop. Hung was amenable to this and left only 1000 Jurchen and

    • 52 min
    Fall and Rise of China: The Rebellion of Li Zicheng

    Fall and Rise of China: The Rebellion of Li Zicheng

    Last time we spoke, the death of Nurhaci led to the rise of his grandson Hung Taiji. The Sea King Mao Wenlong was finally caught lying about his military achievements and even secretly negotiating with the Jin. Mao’s rival Yuan Chonghuan took little time to get rid of Mao, thus riding himself of the man stealing his limelight. Unfortunately it was not long when Yuan would fall victim to a sneaky ploy of Hung Taiji and was executed under the false pretense that he was a turncoat like Mao. Hung managed to gain some very valuable Ming defectors and upgraded his military with new cannons and naval units. Then Hung proclaimed his people to be the Manchu under a brand new Qing dynasty as he conquered all of Korea. With the Koreans now giving him tribute, he soon turned his gaze towards the Ming, with some new toys in hand.
     
    Welcome to the Fall and Rise of China Podcast, I am your dutiful host Craig Watson. But, before we start I want to also remind you this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Perhaps you want to learn more about the history of Asia? Kings and Generals have an assortment of episodes on world war two and much more  so go give them a look over on Youtube. So please subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry for some more history related content, over on my channel, the Pacific War Channel where I cover the history of China and Japan from the 19th century until the end of the Pacific War.
    This episode is The Rebellion of Li Zicheng



    In early 1634, one man, Chen Qiyu, was instilled with an incredible amount of power. He was made Supreme commander of Shaanxi, Shanxi, Henan, Huguang and Sichuan. The Ming Court had realized the required authority necessary to coordinate operations against the wandering bandit menace. Droughts, famine, even cannibalism was seen all over, driving peasants to swell the ranks of bandits who soon became rebel armies. So many officials in numerous provinces complained they lacked the resources necessary to feed their troops, distribute relief or quell rebellions. In turn when they would fail, they would be dismissed, leading to a further shortage of competent men to manage the terrible situation. In the area between Shaanxi and Henan, over 200,000 rebels began taking smaller towns and killing local officials. The rebels would routinely attack smaller towns, usually in groups of 10,000 and perform atrocities against officials. They would avoid any open battles with Ming forces, always on the move. Then all the prominent rebel leaders got together for a meeting, which would be a rather dramatic turning point. The overarching leader amongst them was Li Zicheng who would make many key decisions for them all. They decided to divide their forces and strike out simultaneously in all directions. The most successful of these groups would be the Rebel leaders Zhang Xianzhong and Gao Yingxiang who hit Nan Zhili. Enroute to their target, their troops carried around banners declaring themselves followers of the True Primal Dragon Emperor and thus they were identifying themselves as something more than just mere bandits. They marched through Henan on their way into Nan Zhili, looting the town of Fengyang. There they killed over 4000 Ming officials and civilians performing some heinous atrocities, some stating they even ripped fetuses out of pregnant women. They razed everything to the ground and looted the place for days. Once they were done, Gao headed west and Zhang went east to attack Luzhou. Defending Luzhou was commander Wu Dapo who deployed peasants and troops to defend the town. He set up cannons atop walls and stockpiled large logs to be thrown at the rebels. Then as the bandits got close, his forces opened fire killing around a 1000 of them.Yet such local competent commanders were increasingly becoming rare

    • 53 min
    Fall and Rise of China: Fall of the Ming Dynasty

    Fall and Rise of China: Fall of the Ming Dynasty

    Last time we spoke, Yang Sichang had enacted his “ten-sided net” plan and won a multitude of victories over rebels. However this plan proved to be a disaster overall and cost the Ming Dynasty more than it did any good. Now Li Zicheng had established himself as the de facto largest rebel leader amongst others who now held entire armies at their command. The Ming dynasty was rotting from within and its actions to prevent the rot simply delayed or sometimes even made it worse. With the allocation of so many resources to the northwest and center of China to deal with the rebels, the Ming northeastern frontier was weaker than ever. Seeing the absolute turmoil from within, the Qing soon realized they could allow the rebels to do much of the heavy lifting for them for now it was time for the Qing to overthrow one of the greatest dynasties in history.
     
    Welcome to the Fall and Rise of China Podcast, I am your dutiful host Craig Watson. But, before we start I want to also remind you this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Perhaps you want to learn more about the history of Asia? Kings and Generals have an assortment of episodes on world war two and much more  so go give them a look over on Youtube. So please subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry for some more history related content, over on my channel, the Pacific War Channel where I cover the history of China and Japan from the 19th century until the end of the Pacific War.
     
    This episode is the fall of the Ming Dynasty
     
    As things only worsened within the Ming dynasty, soon the Qing would make their move in one of the most decisive engagements fought between the 2 empires. Given the Ming's recent ability to withstand the Qing raids over the past few years, the Ming Court remained a bit more optimistic that the northeast could hold out. Hong Chengchou continuously argued they should remain defensive despite many in the Ming court pushing for offensive operations. Despite this, the Qing were making massive efforts at digging trenches for some upcoming sieges. By some estimates some trenches were 8 feet deep and 6 feet wide, dug in several rows. The siege efforts represented an evolution in Qing warfare, many differing groups were being employed and specialization was being seen. For example Koreans were manning many of the firearms and Mongols were used more for mobile warfare. At Jinzhou some Ming relief forces began to advance and upon hearing the firing of their guns, the defenders burst out of the south gate. The Ming engaged the Qing who had sent 7000 cavalry to hit them. A fierce battle was fought, but the Qing were able to move their cannons and used them to devastate the Ming. The defenders were badly hurt, having 738 dead and 793 wounded, but the Qing eventually turned away by nightfall. Despite this being a slight victory for the Ming, they had only months worth of supplies and were advised by Zu Dashou not to enter any battles lightly. But the Ming Court kept demanding more offensive operations, pushing Hong Chengchou to go forth with a force of 60,000 in July of 1641 to hit the Qing. The Qing forces were around Mount Rufeng, due south of Jinzhou. When Dorgon heard the report of 60,000 Ming incoming he urgently sent a message to Hung for aid. Hung told Dorgon to stand firm and sent him 3000 cavalry immediately to help out. Estimates vary, but its possible the Qing had up to 100,000 men in many elevated positions amongst all the siege works. When Hung arrived to the scene he stated “They say Hong Chengchou knows how to use troops. I can see that those aren’t empty claims. My generals should be concerned”. Some of Hong’s commanders advised a retreat, stating their supply was short, but Hong stated “now today we have this opportunity and although our food supplies ar

    • 55 min
    Fall and Rise of China: Rise of the South Ming Regime

    Fall and Rise of China: Rise of the South Ming Regime

    Last time we spoke, the Ming Dynasty had finally come to an end. After years of fighting, Li Zicheng had finally broken the Ming Dynasty and assumed the Dragon Throne, or sort of. As his rebel forces pillaged Beijing and Li Zicheng sought to establish his Shun Dynasty a rather large issue loomed, that of the Qing invaders. The Qing had bided their time waiting for the Ming Dynasty to rot from the inside before making their move. Li Zicheng took his army to go meet the foreign invader, but unbeknownst to him the remnants of the northern Ming military prefered to throw their lot in with the Qing rather than with him. Li Zicheng’s army was smashed at the battle of Shanhai pass. Prince Dorgon took the dragon throne to serve as regent for the infant Qing Emperor Shunzhi marking the emergence of a new Dynasty over China, and they all lived happily ever after. Of course not. 
     
    Welcome to the Fall and Rise of China Podcast, I am your dutiful host Craig Watson. But, before we start I want to also remind you this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Perhaps you want to learn more about the history of Asia? Kings and Generals have an assortment of episodes on the history of asia and much more  so go give them a look over on Youtube. So please subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry for some more history related content, over on my channel, the Pacific War Channel where I cover the history of China and Japan from the 19th century until the end of the Pacific War.
     
    #6 This episode is the rise of the South Ming Regime
     
    So perhaps a short recap of the end of the last series of episodes. The bandit army of Li Zicheng believed after taking Beijing that their revolution had succeeded and that they could all “live happily ever after”. They did not consider the threat in the north that was the Qing invaders. They had committed the mistake of arrogance and it cost them their newfound Shun Dynasty, it also would have future political and military consequences. The first Qing emperor was titled Shunzhi, meaning “smoothly ruling emperor”, however Prince Dorgon would act as his regent as he was only 5 years old. Thus at the offset, Prince Dorgon ordered the Han chinese civilians to leave inner Beijing city so he could resettle it was Manchu bannermen and establish some sort of order. Exceptions were made of course, remember countless Han defectors aided the Qing conquest and many would take up titles and positions within the new government. The Qing rulers were not naive, they knew opposition would be fierce if they did not incorporate Han chinese within their new hierarchy and thus the loyal Han Bannermen became the great administrators that allowed for the transition to run sort of smoothly. Some of the greatest Han bannermen that would aid the new administration would be Kong Youde, a long time defector, Shang Kexi and Geng Zhongming, who both would play very crucial roles much further into this story. Until 1658 the Qing would intentionally not install any Manchu or Mongol governors so as to make sure the transition worked. Yet also at the offset, the Qing did ruffle some feathers with a particular decision. In 1645 Prince Dorgon issued the infamous head shaving proclamation. Basically he ordered all subjects in China to shave their hair in the style of the Manchu, which is that of a long braided queue. You probably have seen countless movies showcasing this hairstyle, usually the men have a hat on and you see the long braid trailing under it. Now he proclaimed the punishment for those who did not perform the head shaving as that of any other rebel to the Qing, a death sentence. Now a ton of Han chinese shaved their head immediately to curry favor with Prince Dorgon and the new Qing dynasty. They were showered with titles and positions and s

    • 54 min

Customer Reviews

4.8 out of 5
61 Ratings

61 Ratings

elliotwhite21 ,

Great show

I recommend this to anyone looking for a good listen. Interesting and very engaging.

HistoricalWarfare11 ,

Great

Where is the 3rd season?

BerkeKhan ,

Amazing Mongol series with a medieval Europeans/Christian bias against Middle East/Muslims..

Excellent work, trying to bring an balanced view on the Mongolian conquest. Initially it start’s off good, but when it comes to the mongol conquest of Baghdad or the talk about Berke Khan- the personal bias is oozing out (overflowing). It’s very evident the discussion with one of the experts of Mongol history (I think Dr.Hope). Initially when I came across it, I missed it. But when you repeat the biased deduction and versions multiple times, it’s hard not to notice.
But real good work. Apart from that as far as I can notice.
I would like to give a 3 star but then people would miss the warning sings provided by the reviews.

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