Cider Chat

Ria Windcaller: Award-winning Cidermaker, Podcaster | Craft Beer Columnist
Cider Chat

Interviewing cidermakers, importers, orchardists, foodies, farmers and cider enthusiasts around the world. Let’s delve into the semantics of cider…or is it hard cider, cidre, sidra or fermented apple juice? The truth is out there in Ciderville and we are going to find it. We toast in celebration of cider; As a libation, a gift from the gods, a taste of terroir, and a hard pressed good time. Ready to quench your thirst? Grab a glass and join this chat! See you in Ciderville!

  1. 452: Mac to Redfield: Four Phantoms Brewery Embraces Cider | MA

    6D AGO

    452: Mac to Redfield: Four Phantoms Brewery Embraces Cider | MA

    Drew Phillips opened the doors of Four Phantoms in Greenfield, Massachusetts in 2021. He began his fermentation career in the Pacific Northwest, and while waiting to open his own brewery, he took on the role as cider maker at Artifact Cider Project. Drew Phillips Known for his creative ciders and beers, Drew blends tradition with innovation, sourcing local fruit and experimenting with wild fermentation. Check out his talk on the making of Old Gods . In this episode, Drew shares how Four Phantoms’ unique approach reflects the terroir of Western Massachusetts. Early Challenges of a Brewery/Cidery: Gaining a License Drew initially couldn’t produce cider legally due to licensing restrictions in Massachusetts. After securing a farmer winery license, he started making cider alongside beer and mead. All ciders are crafted from Pine Hill fruit in Colrain, Massachusetts. Signature Ciders and Fermentation Techniques Late Harvest – 6.5% Apples (Spy, Golden Russet and Baldwin) Tamlane – 6% 100% Macintosh apples, aged on black birch wood, giving it a herbal, German liqueur note. Redfield – 7.7% 100% Redfield apples – A red-fleshed apple cider with natural acidity and structure. Chapin’s Waltz – 8.5% A blend of Golden Russet, Baldwin, and Northern Spy, co-fermented with low intervention. King of the Wharf – 7.5% A Mac-based cider aged on rum-soaked oak chips, giving it a smooth, warming finish. Old Gods – 8% Inspired by Finnish farmhouse brewing, fermented on black birch. Listen to Episode 345 on how Old Gods a Co-Fermentation of Wort and Apple Juice was made! Ciders Tasted during this chat Low Intervention and Sense of Place Drew emphasizes low-intervention cider making — no back-sweetening, minimal sulfites, and natural wild cultures. The ciders reflect the unique qualities of Western Massachusetts apples and local wood aging. Poly tanks and oak aging contribute to the distinctive flavors and textures. Community and the Future of Four Phantoms Four Phantoms Tasting Area by the production room Drew values the connection between local agriculture and cider. He sees cider’s future as more craft-focused than beer, with room for independent voices. “Cider resists commercialization,” says Drew. “It’s about sense of place.” Contact Info for Four Phantoms Website: https://fourphantoms.net Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tours Cider Route Itinerary send a request to Cider Chat Cider Rap Song – by Robert Sherman of EsoTerra Ciderworks in Durango, Colorado

    52 min
  2. 451: Hello Season 10 and The Berkshire Roundtable

    MAR 19

    451: Hello Season 10 and The Berkshire Roundtable

    In this Season 10 premier of Cider Chat, "Introductions" are featured from over 40 persons in attendance at the annual 2025 Berkshire Roundtable. Kicking off Season 10 of Cider Chat The opportunity to begin Season 10 with "Hellos" from a wide range of people in the cider community is the perfect fit for this milestone episode. Here at Cider Chat Central we hope that this Season opener acts as a reminder that there is a wealth of knowledge at hand at a grass roots level in every region of the US. Of course, this holds true for other countries as well and right about now this reminder feels very timely. In Wisdom Lies Hope — hope for sustaining orchard ecosystems, hope that information can be passed on, history can be preserved and through shared learning and collaboration we can all create a better world. We wish you all strength in knowing that so many others are working toward the same goal of stewarding this earth with care and intention. That shared purpose is a source of hope and resilience, even when the path ahead feels uncertain. What is the Berkshire Roundtable? The Berkshire Roundtable is an annual gathering held each March at Stump Sprouts, a rustic retreat center in Buckland, Massachusetts. This event brings together orchardists, cider makers, and industry professionals to exchange ideas and strengthen community ties. Meetings take place over the course of a day and a half, in a large room at the retreat with everyone sitting in a round circle. Berkshire Roundtable group photo New Beginning for the Berkshire Roundtable The Berkshire Roundtable has been taking place for the past 35 years! Micheal Phillips was integral in starting this meetup of orchardist and makers. In 2012, the Holistic Orchard Network (HON) was founded by Michael Phillips. His influential book, The Holistic Orchard, continues to be sought after by orchardists around the world. Find more of his books at the Cider Books Resource page on this website. Michael passed away unexpectedly while out in his New Hampshire orchard on February 27 2022. Today, HON continues on with leadership from Micheal Biltonen and others. Michael's work is continuing on by his wife Nancy and daughter Gracie Phillips and the HON work today. Gracie and Nancy Phillips Contact Info for HON and Heartsong Farm/Lost Nation Orchard Holistic Orchard Network with Berkshire Roundtable info : https://holisticorchardnetwork.org/   Heartsong Farm and Lost Nation Orchard Mentions in this Cider Chat 392: Bent Ladder Estate Ciders & Wine | Ohio   408: Cider’s Pomological Life Coach | Know Your Roots, NY   312: Angels Dressed Like Bears | Michael Phillips 1957-2022   Heartsong Farm and Lost Nation Orchard workshops   Follow MJ in Australia @getontheciders and his cidery @ciderinfusion   Follow Adrian Luna @hardciderguy

    1h 1m
  3. MAR 12

    450th Roger Wilkins - The Cider King

    Looking back at Season 9 and Forward with Roger Wilkins In this season ending episode we visit Roger Wilkins at his Lands End Farm. Cider King – Roger Wilkins Roger Wilkins, is known globally as the “Cider King,” and is a legendary figure in Somerset cider-making. He has been running Wilkins' Cider Farm in Mudgley since taking over from his grandfather in 1969. Renowned for his traditional methods, Roger ferments locally grown bittersweet apples in oak barrels, producing unfiltered, unsweetened farmhouse cider. His no-nonsense style and commitment to authenticity have made Wilkins' Cider Farm a pilgrimage site for cider enthusiasts world wide. Though he has mentioned plans to scale down production, Roger was carrying buckets of apples into the cidery when Ria visited him in October of 2024. This episode features Roger discussing the difficulty for farmers and working with what he calls “Pen Floaters”. Season 9 Recap Throughout this episode you will hear guest from Season 9, which started with Episode #401. From Chile, the UK, France and Eastern Europe and throughout the U.S.A., Cider Chat has featured guests who both make cider, promote cider, provide leadership for cider and enjoy cider. With this episode 450 of Cider Chat we are showcasing the oral history of cider in 2025. So grab a glass and Join the Chat, as we ring out one season and prepare for the next! Mentioned in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tours Cider Chat Podcast Archives – Find over 450 episodes. Use the search bar for up top and plug in a work or name to find an episode on that topic! 438: The Secret Sauce to Cider’s Growth is #xpromotecider

    52 min
  4. 448: Cider Institute: New Name, New Reach, and More Cider Education

    FEB 26

    448: Cider Institute: New Name, New Reach, and More Cider Education

    The Cider Institute: Training the Next Generation of Cider Makers The Cider Institute, formerly known as the Cider Institute of North America (CINA), is the premier resource for cider education. Founded in 2016 at CiderCon, the Institute focuses on training cider makers of all levels, from beginners to advanced professionals. With a growing global reach, the Institute now offers online and in-person courses, making cider education more accessible than ever. In this episode we speak with the Cider Institute’s Executive Director Brighid O’Keane. Executive Director Brighid O’Keane Core Offerings: Cider Education for All Levels The Cider and Perry Production Foundation Course is the flagship program, covering everything from apple selection to fermentation, chemistry, microbiology, and post-production techniques. This 12-week online course includes weekly Zoom sessions with industry experts, ensuring hands-on engagement even in a virtual format. For those just getting started, the upcoming Cider Making 101 will be a self-directed, beginner-friendly course, introducing enthusiasts to the fundamentals of cider without the deep technical dive of the foundation course. For experienced cider makers, advanced courses cover topics like: Safety & Sanitation – Ensuring proper practices in cider production Sensory Analysis – Understanding cider flavor profiles Laboratory Testing – Learning critical quality control techniques Operations-Focused Hands-On Training – A five-day immersive experience A Global Perspective on Cider Training With increasing international interest, the Cider Institute is expanding worldwide. Upcoming in-person classes for 2025 will be offered at Brock University (Canada), Washington State University, and Virginia Tech, with plans for courses in the UK and beyond. The Institute also runs production tours, fostering knowledge exchange between cider makers across regions. (Left to right) Board Members – Christine Walter, Brighid O’Keane E.D., Nick Gunn, Chris Gerling, Steven Trussler, Nicole Leibon, Dave Takush, Kira Bassingthwaighte Contact Info for the Cider Institute Website: https://www.ciderinstitute.com/ Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tours Kordick Family Farm – newsletter sign up at https://kordickfamilyfarm.com/ Note the apple pretzels in the tree below Know Your Roots Consulting – newsletter sign up at

    49 min
  5. 447: Inside the Michigan Cider Association with Executive Director Paula Englin

    FEB 19

    447: Inside the Michigan Cider Association with Executive Director Paula Englin

    Michigan Cider: The Great Cider State with Paula Englin Michigan has earned its place as a leader in the cider industry, boasting the highest number of hard cider businesses in the U.S. In this episode, Paula Englin, Executive Director of the Michigan Cider Association, discusses the state’s growth in cider, the role of education, and how Michigan cider makers are shaping the industry with events like the well known cider competition GLINTCAP – Great Lakes International Cider and Perry competition. MCA Executive Director Paula Englin With nearly 195 cider businesses and a thriving community, Michigan truly is The Great Cider State Growing Michigan Cider: Collaboration & Education The Michigan Cider Association was founded over a decade ago to bring cider makers together, advocate for legislative needs, and expand consumer awareness. Today, the association focuses on education, providing opportunities for cider makers at all levels—from home enthusiasts to large-scale producers. One of the recent big initiatives has been working with the Cider Institute, formely known as the Cider Institute of North America (CINA), to offer subsidized cider education. Michigan cider makers have benefited from foundational courses, cider guide certifications for taproom staff, and marketing efforts that drive cider sales across the state. Mapping Michigan’s Cider Scene Michigan’s unique geography, shaped by the Great Lakes, creates an ideal environment for growing apples. Many cider makers source their fruit locally, often within 30 minutes of their production sites. Here’s how the cider landscape breaks down: To use this Hand Map – Hold up your left hand, palm facing outward, with fingers together and thumb extended—this mimics Michigan’s Lower Peninsula, often called “The Mitten,” with Detroit near the base of the thumb and Traverse City near the tip of your pinky. Metro Detroit (Thumb region) – A hub for orchards and cideries, home to well-known producers. Southwest Michigan (Pinky side of the mitten) – A mix of wineries and cideries, taking advantage of the region’s wine industry crossover. Grand Rapids & the Fruit Ridge (Center of the mitten) – A major apple-growing region supplying cideries statewide. Traverse City (Top of the mitten) – A destination for cider lovers, known for high-quality cider apples and innovative makers. Cider Events That Put Michigan on the Map Michigan’s cider industry thrives on consumer engagement, and events play a major role in getting more people to appreciate and support local cider. Michigan Apple Festival (Sparta, MI) – A harvest celebration featuring local apple growers, cider producers, and even an apple peeling contest! Cider Week Grand Rapids (May 9-17, 2025) – A week of cider-focused events, including pairing dinners, tap takeovers, and a board game night at House Rules in Grand Rapids. Grand Rapids Wine, Beer & Food Festival – Showcasing a variety of Michigan ciders to educate new consumers and cider fans alike. GLINTCAP: Great Lakes International Cider and Perry competition Michigan is also home to GLINTCAP (Great Lakes International Cider & Perry Competition), the world’s largest cider competition. Paula now oversees the event, which continues to grow, introducing a low and no-ABV category for the first time in 2025. One major shift? Judging is now fully digital, improving feedback delivery and accuracy. The competition also expanded international accessibility, making it easier for cider makers worldwide to participate. Contant the Michigan Cider Association Website: https://michiganciders.com/ Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tour to the UK – send an email to info@ciderchat.com to get on the wait list for spots opening on this 2025 tour taking place August 25-31, 2025 and future cider tours. Letter from Patron Rod – Become a patron of Cider Chat via Cider Chat Patreon Stone Ridge Orchard May Wassail – follow on Instagram Episode 296 Bauman’s |Oregon’s Destination Farm Cidery

    59 min
  6. 446: Monica Cohen, the New CEO of the American Cider Association

    FEB 12

    446: Monica Cohen, the New CEO of the American Cider Association

    Monica Cohen on Leading the ACA Monica Cohen, the new CEO of the American Cider Association (ACA), stepped into her role at CiderCon 2025 in Chicago. With a background in dairy marketing and a passion for helping craft industries grow, she brings fresh energy and a bold vision to the cider world. Her introduction to cider mirrors a challenge the industry faces—many consumers assume all cider is the same. She’s on a mission to change that. American Cider Association CEO, Monica Cohen Priorities for 2025 Monica laid out her key focus areas for the ACA: Enhancing membership value – Ensuring small and large cideries alike benefit from ACA resources. Growing ACA membership – Making the association indispensable to cider makers. Strengthening advocacy – Fighting for fair industry regulations, including tax structures. Increasing consumer awareness – Changing public perception and getting cider on more menus. Cider’s Big Opportunity Monica believes cider’s time is now. She emphasizes that innovation, consumer education, and stronger industry collaboration will be key to the next phase of growth. CiderCon Takeaways & The Path Forward At CiderCon 2025, Monica had an “aha moment” during Cider Share, experiencing firsthand the incredible diversity of cider. She sees the event as more than just a conference—it’s a place for the cider community to connect, share ideas, and shape the industry’s future. Looking ahead to CiderCon 2026 in Providence Rhode Island, Monica wants to grow attendance, attract new industry partners, and ensure the event remains relevant and impactful for all makers big or small. Contact the American Cider Association Website: https://ciderassociation.org Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tour to the UK – send an email to info@ciderchat.com to get on the wait list for spots opening on this 2025 tour taking place August 25-31, 2025.

    46 min
  7. 445: Unspoken Creed | Stories in Ciderville /Denmark

    FEB 3

    445: Unspoken Creed | Stories in Ciderville /Denmark

    An Unspoken Creed By Sune Kroghansen Enjoy this special Story in Ciderville from Denmark! “Roedding The restart of the cider adventure in Rødding. In the mid-00s, the villagers of Rødding had begun making cider. It faded due to the focus on grafting, planting and nursing the thousands of apple trees in the apple village. In the fall of 2018, focus was about to change again, apple trees was maturing and a decrease nursing left time for something else.  Organized by the association: “Æblets by” — “The Apple Village” a congregation was held, 2 score of interested participants met in the community house of the small village of Rødding in Salling. Amongst was participants living close by in the parish, living in the municipality, the region, and a scarce few from far away. The desire to use the apples for more than just planting. Apple juice production was already a major activity in the village, inspiring the entreprenant townsfolks to move further. Creating activity, community and jobs from the apples grown. Those present discussed opportunities of diversifying activities, moving into cider production along with vinegar, jam, jelly. During the fall of 2018 and winter of 2019, the first cider was fermented. Apples from the gene bank Pometet Nursery part of, University of Copenhagen. Was used I these ferments. Inspired by, among others: Andrew Lea, Cider Chat, Cold Hand Winery, University of Copenhagen Department of Plant Sciences. Fermentation and experimentation started with a steep learning curve: Oe, capsules, corks, aglets, disgorging, remuage, tirage, liquere de expedition, brownhat, so2, eggysmell, ester, alcohol taxes, VAT, tankcleaning, oak, food safety control, acid. We tasted, laughed, spit, drank, smelled with a focus on the experience and excitement of the taste experience. We try to greet a new taste or flavour: “I don’t know you, what can you do? What makes you shine?” Of course, everyone has a favorite taste. But experience has taught us. That there is great variation, and “good taste” depends on what the cider is to be used for. The Cider Club meets regularly. Both with a focus on cozy togetherness but also with a focus on technical details, training cider crafting techniques and in taste and sensory. Promoting spreading the joy of fermented apples. I don’t know if the word “Creed” or “credo” was discussed, I don’t think so! however a “spirit” has been underlying everything though unspoken: The unspoken creed It should taste good. It should be as local as possible. It should preferably be in unmanipulated. Although “natural” is a well-worn word. It is the idea/spirit/dream that we should strive to find: The apple or apple cultivars that make good cider. The cultivar should also be able to: Grow on a healthy, unpruned, untended tree, where we live. They should be easy to press into apple juice. The juice should ferment alone without adding anything other than time. It should be able to keep without any other preservation than a lid. It may be construde as a naive dream that does not abide into modern production society, nor does it fit efficient agriculture. And probably not even practically possible. So there have been deviations from the idea along the way. Mostly to follow the first part of the unspoken creed: “it must taste good” Like a vanilla bean, that tastes fantastic but is not particularly widespread growing in the Danish landscape. So if kakifruits, sulfur, sugar, oak, pineapple, oranges, erythritol, lactose, pasteurization, elderflowers. Are necessary to achieve “good cider” then so be it. The Cider Club is a spirit, and a loose part of an international movement of cider from pure apple juice. We strive to include everyone, and avoid selfishness, selfsufficientness. We are not signers of the “New Nordic Food Manifesto of 2004” but looking back it has influenced us tremendously. With a mixture of epicurean joy of life and the joys of the table. Sustainable thinking and naive optimism. The best we can do, each thing in its own time. BUT we originate from the village of apples so the foundation is the diversity of the old apple cultivars. The hope is to, create something people will choose to enjoy. And It should be fun along the way. Without ruining anything for the world of tomorrow. Wasalling!” Have a story to tell for the “Stories in Ciderville” segment? Must be 3000 words or less or under 4 audio minutes Apples and pommes must be integrated into the story line Send your essay and a recording of yourself reading your essay to info@ciderchat.com Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tour to the UK – send an email to info@ciderchat.com to get on the wait list for this 2025 tour taking place August 25-31, 2025 Chicago Cider Week Chicago Cider Summit CiderCon2025

    28 min
4.8
out of 5
83 Ratings

About

Interviewing cidermakers, importers, orchardists, foodies, farmers and cider enthusiasts around the world. Let’s delve into the semantics of cider…or is it hard cider, cidre, sidra or fermented apple juice? The truth is out there in Ciderville and we are going to find it. We toast in celebration of cider; As a libation, a gift from the gods, a taste of terroir, and a hard pressed good time. Ready to quench your thirst? Grab a glass and join this chat! See you in Ciderville!

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